Lucie Bangert is studying for a Master's degree in electrical engineering at Kiel University. Her path to studying electrical engineering is unusual. Her goal is to work in research and development later on.
Lucie Bangert
PLUS: Why exactly did you decide to study Electrical Engineering and Information Technology?
Lucie Bangert: I don't know exactly how it came about. It was very important for me to go to Kiel and do something in the field of engineering. I couldn't decide on a course for a long time - so I simply enrolled for the first engineering course on the university website on the last day when it was still possible. Electrical Engineering and Information Technology was at the top of the list alphabetically, so I just went for it.
"Electrical engineering was at the top alphabetically."
Wow, but that's cool if it was such a good fit for you that you finished your Bachelor's degree and are now going to do a Master's in the same subject. Sounds like you played a bit of 'course roulette' with fate. When did you know that you wanted to become an engineer?
I never really had much connection to anything technical in my childhood. I was in the art section at school. When it was disbanded, my friends persuaded me to switch to physics. I wasn't even good at physics at the time, but the teacher was very motivated. We went to summer science schools, XLabs and projects for women in engineering with her. I thought that was really cool and realized that I wanted to become an engineer. But it was only during my studies, perhaps from the third semester onwards, that I understood: So that's electrical engineering, that's what I really want to do.
You are now doing a Master's in Electrical Engineering and Information Technology after your Bachelor's. What would you like to do professionally after your academic training?
I definitely want to stay in research and development. I would either like to do research at a Fraunhofer Institute, at university or at another large institute.
When did you decide that for yourself?
I spent four months at a Polish university for an internship semester. I was involved in research there and then took part in research at our university in two student jobs - but also in teaching. That's why I want to do research, development and teaching later on.
So you can imagine teaching the next generation in this field later on?
Yes, exactly, as a teacher at a vocational school or as a lecturer at a university.
You certainly have a lot of opportunities, especially as a woman, which are less common in the field of electrical engineering.
I only realized during my studies that people were so urgently needed.
How have you found the university course so far in terms of the amount of material, complexity and knowledge transfer?
As I did most of my studies during the coronavirus period, I don't know exactly how representative my experience is. I found the course extensive, but quite manageable. The basics are very school-loaded, and if you paid attention in physics at school and, above all, had good teachers, the foundation course is very doable. And after that, it's much more fun when you can choose what interests you and see what you've learned so much math for. I have to say: Kiel was simply 100% the right choice for me. It's a small university, so you're very close to the professors. The lecturers are incredibly keen to retain the students they have. A lot of emphasis is placed on practice. All in all, I can say that I am very satisfied with the teaching here.
How many women are there on your degree course?
In percentage terms, it's 9%. But I can also tell you in absolute figures: there is exactly one woman - and that's me.
Was it like that from the start?
I'm studying pure electrical engineering and information technology in Kiel. There were 42 of us at the beginning, including three or four women. Now there are ten of us on the course. Of these ten, I am the only woman. We started with 80 people on the industrial engineering course. About half of them graduated, including five or six women. So there were at least a few women in the lectures, but I was very often alone.
What was it like for you as often the only woman in the room?
To be honest, I thought it was pretty shitty. When I came into the lecture on the first day - and, as I said, I didn't even know what I was studying yet - I looked around ... there were only men. I wanted to quit right then and there. But then my professor came and gave an incredibly good lecture. I thought to myself: OK, apparently there are women who are good at this - then I can do it too.
It's amazing that so many dropped out despite the university's efforts. Why do you think that is?
For many, the reason was corona - studying online wasn't for them. A few found that there were too few women and they couldn't find any friends on the course. And for many, the course was too complex: too much math. They had imagined it would be different.
In your opinion, what needs to be improved in university education in the field of electronics?
It's already very good at our university that we have a lot of project work. You learn more in the long term through homework and project work.
Once again on the subject of drop-outs: is it because it is not clearly shown what the electrical engineering course involves, or is it due to poor preparation for the course content?
Well, I didn't prepare myself either ...
You were prepared to be surprised. But very few people are like that: most people have clear ideas when it comes to the subject. Do you think there is poor communication about what happens during your studies?
It's down to the communication. Electrical engineering is incredibly diverse. The department where I wrote my Bachelor's thesis makes sensors that can detect various diseases in horses. And I'm a horse girl! That alone would have completely convinced me that electrical engineering is a cool field. Wind turbines are also electrical engineering. It's in almost everything, but you always forget that. If they were introduced to it at school, more pupils would be interested in it. I wonder myself why I didn't know all this, even though I attended summer schools, lived next to a Fraunhofer Institute and took part in the courses as a child.
When I think of engineers, I immediately think of mechanical engineers, computer scientists and civil engineers. Electrical engineering falls a bit behind.
When you think of electrical engineers, you think of a white man in a checked shirt soldering something in his basement. It's extremely difficult to overcome this prejudice - and then also to motivate young people to train or study in this field. Also with regard to more women. At Kiel University, however, extra jobs have been created for women to go into schools and inform the next generation about what electrical engineering is and what it can do.
Is this so well received by the pupils?
When you go to schools to give a presentation or lecture, the pupils are usually just happy that there are no lessons. But actively listening and engaging with it - that rarely happens.
Yes, that's right ... I was no different at school.
Looking back, I think it's a shame that I didn't always pay attention and realize earlier that I should study electrical engineering.
But the alphabet brought you to electrical engineering anyway. What experiences did you have during your internship semester in Turkey? Is there also a shortage of skilled workers in electrical engineering there like here?
The working conditions are different to here. That's why many students want to go to Germany. I can imagine that there are many electrical engineers from other countries who want to work here but can't or aren't allowed to. I find it absurd: people everywhere in Germany are shouting that there is a shortage of skilled workers. But skilled workers who want to come have problems with the complicated visa process, which not all companies want to go through.
"In absolute numbers, there is exactly one woman on my course - and that's me."
In your opinion, what are the main reasons for the shortage of skilled workers in the electronics industry and research?
The electronics industry is not unattractive for foreign specialists per se, but is made unattractive by overly complex bureaucracy. And the subject is not unknown, but rather the content that is taught, the diversity of the course and what electrical engineers actually do.
Comment
[After the interview, Ms. Bangert made it clear that the gender ratio has improved slightly in the Master's course: She is now studying with three fellow female students.
As part of our research into the shortage of skilled workers, we interview electrical engineering trainees and students, school pupils and other stakeholders and future hopefuls. Our aim is to get a picture of the mood in the industry - and to develop strategies for tackling this key challenge.